The Cleveland debate

Clinton and Obama both did well. I wouldn't say there was a clear winner, or that anything in the debate was likely to change anybody's mind--despite good probing questions from Russert and Williams. Hillary came across as the more forceful and dominating of the two, as usual, and Obama the more flexible and reflective. They engaged with no issues of substance that have not already been flogged to death, as far as I could see.

I did think Obama was a little tepid in his denunciation of Farrakhan (and he ignored the part of the question that dealt with his own pastor's praise of the man; I would have liked to hear him say something about that). But then I think Hillary neutralised her own slight advantage by making a bit too much of it, in a way that seemed forced. Overall, both mainly just underlined their previous messages. Her line: she is a fighter and he is not. His line: she is a fighter apt to lose, and there is a better way to get things done. (Both cite health reform to prove their points.)

They were both more bitterly opposed to NAFTA than ever. Now they are threatening to tear up the agreement altogether unless it is renegotiated in ways that suit the US. I wonder what Mexico and Canada think about that. So much for the new spirit of multilateralism that will help repair the country's standing in the world. The prospects for liberal trade look bleaker by the week.

The polls seem to be moving Obama's way in Texas and Ohio. I can't see this debate changing that, but who knows?

Comments

Nothing is ever good enough! Clinton didn't denounce or reject the support of Anne Coulter, an all around bigot. Senator Obama did what no other African American has ever done (at least not at this level), acknowledge that the opportunities that he enjoys is due in large part to the contributions and sacrifices of Jewish Americans. He paid homage to unsung heroes and all you can do is piss on it.

Posted by Dawn | February 27, 2008 1:08 AM

This event taught me little more about the two candidates than how they might behave if small dogs were to yap at their feet and bite at their ankles. A format of civil questions and thoughtful answers would be more informative, and more entertaining.

Posted by Bob G. | February 27, 2008 1:51 AM

Michelle Obama's America -- And Mine
By Michelle Malkin
February 20, 2008
Like Michelle Obama, I am a "woman of color." Like Michelle Obama, I am a working mother of two young children. Like Michelle Obama, I am a member of the 13th generation of Americans born since the founding of our great nation.
Unlike Michelle Obama, I can't keep track of the number of times I've been proud -- really proud -- of my country since I was born and privileged to live in it.
At a speech in Milwaukee this week on behalf of her husband's Democratic presidential campaign, Mrs. Obama remarked, "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."
Mrs. Obama's statement was met with warm applause from other Barack supporters who have apparently also been devoid of pride in their country for their adult Or maybe it was just a Pavlovian response to the word "change." What a sad, empty, narcissistic, ungrateful, unthinking lot.
I'm just seven years younger than Mrs. Obama. We've grown up and lived in the same era. And yet, her self-absorbed attitude is completely foreign to me. What planet is she living on? Since when was now the only time the American people have ever been "hungry for change"? Michelle, ma belle, Barack is not the center of the universe. Newsflash: The Obamas did not invent "change" any more than Hillary invented "leadership" or John McCain invented "straight talk."
We were both adults when the Berlin Wall fell, Michelle. That was earth-shattering change.
We've lived through two decades' worth of peaceful, if contentious election cycles under the rule of law, which have brought about "change" and upheaval, both good and bad.
We were adults through several launches of the space shuttle, in case you were snoozing. And as adults, we've witnessed and benefited from dizzyingly rapid advances in technology, communications, science and medicine pioneered by American entrepreneurs who yearned to change the world and succeeded. You want "change"? Go ask the patients whose lives have been improved and extended by American pharmaceutical companies that have flourished under the best economic system in the world.
If American ingenuity, a robust constitutional republic and the fall of communism don't do it for you, hon, then how about American heroism and sacrifice?
How about every Memorial Day? Every Veterans Day? Every Independence Day? Every Medal of Honor ceremony? Has she never attended a welcome home ceremony for the troops?
For me, there's the thrill of the Blue Angels roaring over cloudless skies. And the somber awe felt amid the hallowed waters that surround the sunken U.S.S. Arizona at the Pearl Harbor memorial.
Every naturalization ceremony I've attended, where hundreds of new Americans raised their hands to swear an oath of allegiance to this land of liberty, has been a moment of pride for me. So have the awesome displays of American compassion at home and around the world. When millions of Americans rallied to help victims of the 2004 tsunami in Southeast Asia -- including members of the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Group that sped from Hong Kong to assist survivors -- my heart filled with pride. It did again when the citizens of Houston opened their arms to Hurricane Katrina victims and folks across the country rushed to their churches, and Salvation Army and Red Cross offices to volunteer.

Posted by Jerry Chui | February 27, 2008 1:51 AM

if endorsements are so incriminating, then why is it ok for GW Bush to basically have been a veritable "butt-boy" for white trash ideological dinosaurs like James Dobson and Pat Robertson for 8 years now?
could it be because he, like so many other politicians who are pampered by the major media, actually serve the interests of Right Wing ISRAEL more than they do the USA?
hmmmm, wonder what that's all about... could have something to do with the ethinicity of Executives of major television media outlets, eh?
oh nooo, that'd be too grim to be real...

Posted by mateo | February 27, 2008 8:50 AM

Whoa! Give Michelle Obama a break! I am a retired white man, Navy veteran and uncommitted voter who could also have said that I haven't REALLY been as proud of my country for a long time, compared to what may be happening in this election. She used the word REALLY as a matter of degree. From all the negative reaction, you'd think she and I were the only two who have ever experienced moments of lesser and greater pride in our country. Some things we are prouder of than others.

Posted by Veteran | February 27, 2008 11:04 AM

For those who want to see how Obama responded to questions about his relationship to Jeremiah Wright (and other important topics) when asked point blank by Jewish Community leaders this is a must read:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/26/obamas_ohio_grilling.html

Posted by paulc | February 27, 2008 1:46 PM

Obama on Wright and Farrakhan from the Post:

I am member of the Unity Church of Christ, Trinity United Church of Christ, been there for 20 years. And although this is an improvement because you don't think I am Muslim, which is the other... [laughter] You know, so, slowly we are progressing here. It is a very conventional African American church. If you go to, if you were there at the church, you would be hearing gospel music and people preaching about Jesus. It is very conventional in that sense.

It is true that my pastor, Jeremiah Wright, who will be retiring this month, is somebody who on occasion can say controversial things. Most of them, by the way, are controversial directed at the African American community and calling on them [to] start reading books and turn off the TV set and engage in self-help. And he is very active in prison ministries and so forth. It is also true that he comes out of the '60s -- he is an older man. That is where he cut his teeth. That he has historically been interested in the African roots of the African American experience.

He was very active in the South Africa divestment movement, and you will recall that there was a tension that arose between the African American and the Jewish communities during that period when we were dealing with apartheid in South Africa, because Israel and South Africa had a relationship at that time. And that cause -- that was a source of tension. So there have been a couple of occasions where he made comments with relation, rooted in that. Not necessarily ones that I share. But that is the context within which he has made those comments.

He does not have a close relationship with Louis Farrakhan. Louis Farrakhan is a resident of Chicago, and as a consequence he has been active in a range of community activities, particularly around ex-offenders and dealing with them. I have been a consistent, before I go any further, a consistent denunciator of Louis Farrakhan, nobody challenges that. And what is true is that, recently this is probably, I guess last year. An award was given to Farrakhan for his work on behalf of ex-offenders completely unrelated to his controversial statements. And I believe that was a mistake and showed a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish community, and I said so. But I have never heard an anti-Semitic [remark] made inside of our church. I have never heard anything that would suggest anti-Semitism on part of the pastor.

He is like an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don't agree with. And I suspect there are some of the people in this room who have heard relatives say some things that they don't agree with. Including, on occasion, directed at African Americans that maybe a possibility that's just -- I am not suggesting that's definitive. So the point I make is this, that I understand the concerns and the sensitivities, and one of my goals constantly in my public career has been to try to bridge what was a historically powerful bond between the African American and Jewish communities that has been frayed in recent years. For a whole variety of reasons. I think that I have served as an effective bridge, and that's the reason I have overwhelming support among the Jewish community that knows me best, which is the Jewish community in Chicago . And I think that anybody who has friends among the Jewish community in Chicago should check out those credentials.

But I do appreciate the opportunity to clarify those concerns. And as I said, that last point I would make is that you know my pastor is going to be retiring over the next month. So my general view, and the reason that I raise this, this is always a sensitive point, what you don't want to do is distance yourself or kick somebody away, because you are now running for president and you are worried about perceptions, particularly when someone is basically winding down their life and their career.

Posted by paulc | February 27, 2008 2:11 PM

Paulc: Thanks for that link. I hadn't seen it. The whole post is very interesting. I think what Obama says here about Wright and Farrakhan is perfectly reasonable, don't you? Better than reasonable. He balances the conflicting considerations and obligations really well.

Posted by Clive Crook | February 27, 2008 2:51 PM

As I wrote on my blog, he wasn't at all tepid dealing with Farrakhan. He said exactly the right thing. The video shows him laughing at Hillary's attempts to play word games with his answer, and when he was able to respond he got the audience to laugh too.

Posted by Sweating Through Fog | February 27, 2008 4:05 PM