« The Wisconsin effect | Main | The Cleveland debate »

The Democratic debate

21 Feb 2008 09:48 pm

Interesting. Until the last question, I was getting ready to say that this was the first debate that Obama had won outright.

The format, allowing for longer answers than usual, suited him well. He was relaxed and assured. And some of the questions (especially the ones from John King, I thought) were more probing than average, inviting the kind of considered response that plays to Obama's strength. He did well on the "commander-in-chief" question, too. Oddly, Hillary ignored that one to begin with, preferring to hammer away (with diminishing effect, I thought) on health mandates. When the national-security question was put again, she was not strong, settling for a quick tour of recent events--Cuba, Kosovo, Pakistan--as if to show she reads the foreign-news pages, glancing off lots of specifics but saying nothing about them. Obama answered the question in a broader way, as he does, but this time seemed firmer and more authoritative--"I would not be running for president if I thought I wasn't ready to be commander-in-chief".

And I also thought Hillary made a terrible error over the Obama-is-a-plagiarist nonsense. When asked about this accusation, a patently unsuccessful stratagem, instead of walking way from it, she dug herself deeper in, and even used a canned line about Obama's standing not for "change you can believe in" but "change you can xerox". Amazing. (I had to ask my wife if I had heard that correctly.) Hillary's supporters were embarrassed into silence; somebody booed. Obama swatted it away as the kind of stupid politics he is opposed to: case closed. For Hillary to make that mistake in the heat of the moment would have been bad enough. To rehearse it beforehand, as she evidently had, is simply inexplicable.

That was a bad moment, all right, but overall, you understand, she was doing pretty well. We know she is a great debater. It's just that Obama seeemed to be coming over unusually well in a setting he has often found discomfiting. And so, as I say, I had him as winner on points...until that last question.

"I'm wondering if both of you will describe what was the moment that tested you the most, that moment of crisis."

Obama's answer was only OK. He spoke about his life's "trajectory"--which, who could deny, has been pretty impressive. But Hillary's answer was superb. Also rehearsed, no doubt--but this time to magical effect. After alluding with a laugh to the fact that "everybody here knows I've lived through some crises and some challenging moments in my life," she said that her problems didn't really amount to much. She described a recent visit to a hospital where she had met injured soldiers.

And I remember sitting up there and watching them come in. Those who could walk were walking. Those who had lost limbs were trying with great courage to get themselves in without the help of others. Some were in wheelchairs and some were on gurneys. And the speaker representing these wounded warriors had had most of his face disfigured by the results of fire from a roadside bomb.

You know, the hits I've taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country.

And I resolved at a very young age that I'd been blessed and that I was called by my faith and by my upbringing to do what I could to give others the same opportunities and blessings that I took for granted.

That's what gets me up in the morning. That's what motivates me in this campaign.

Reading the words, it looks false. But delivering them, she was subdued, and seemed moved--as who would not be--and it came over as genuine. A brilliant, self-effacing answer: What are my moments of stress, compared with those facing so many ordinary Americans? What indeed. The stupid pettiness of the plagiarism charge, the strident bossiness of her prating on health care, so characteristically Clintonian, faded out. She stole it at the end, and the closing standing ovation was at least two-thirds for her.

Comments (15)

It's the way that Obama has brushed this charge of plagiarism as unimportant which makes it VERY sad. Ask Nora Roberts and Cassie Edwards if plagiarism isn't a theft. When even the romance industry has more standards and ethics that a presidencial candidate, this nation is in trouble. Now students will be able to defend charges of plagiarism by saying if a president can do it, why can't I? Isn't this a lovely example...

If Plagiarism is a theft, then Obama isn't change, he's just a thief. And the only thing he had to do was quote the source. Any student knows that. He's not about change. He has nothing to say. He "inspires" with words that are not his, so what is Obama about?

I know that nothing that Obama does can be criticized because the man walks on water, but come on, this is just wrong. Can't we just admit he commited at least a mistake? My son already said he's going to use this defense in college!

It will be interesting to see what commentator Maria says when she finds out, as Josh Marshall pointed out, that Hillary plagiarized Bill in this answer. Or Joe Klein in Primary Colors, if you prefer Megan's blog.

I agree that her last answer was her best, and that it was very good and appropriate.

That said, the important point Crook makes here is that the deeper questions and longer response times played to Obama's advantage, since they demanded more nuanced answers. When it comes to Hillary's latest buzzword, "solutions", it is the thought behind the answer that matters, not its packaging. To those who genuinely understand the issues here, most of his answers were hands down more realistic and better thought out than most of hers. And certainly on foreign policy, world leaders will be more impressed with his realism than with her salesmanship.

The only arguable exception is healthcare, where I think the difference is less one of ideology or appreciation of what the right endpoint is than one of strategy. I am not sure Democrats yet fully appreciate how much better Obama's proposal will play in the general election campaign, when pitted against all of McCain's naysaying about the "vast bureaucrcy" that would swallow all of us should we dare to pursue universal coverage. And in the end, if you can't get elected, you can't take either of the giant steps forward on healthcare that the two Democratic candidates are now proposing within the cozy confines of their own party's primary.

Why was John King trying to make them say the surge has worked? It hasn't! Read Michael Kinsley's piece in the WashPost today.... The Surge was meant to help eventually facilitate more troops come home, and yet the White House is having a hard time even bringing back the additional troops sent last year.

akak -

The tragedy of the decision to go into this war in the first place was that it was a mortal lock to put us in this no-win situation. There is no way out of this. The surge has worked -- and any additional surges in the future will work -- in the limited sense that it temporarily puts our troops on the offensive in a limited number of places for a limited time.

The problem, as everyone has figured out by now, is that, at some point, you'll want to declare victory, pull the troops out, and go home. And at that moment, whether tomorrow or 50 years from now, the place will erupt in clan violence to fill the power vacuum.

It really is that simple.

Maria - To consider what Obama did "plaigarism" is completely overstating things. Clinton "borrowed" TWO of her most powerful comments at the end of her speech tonight. As soon as she said the "we will be fine" line, I recalled John Edwards saying it in an earlier debate. I remembered the line because I thought it very poignant and very characteristic of Edwards. Her line about "the hits" she has taken was verbatim from one of her husband's speeches in 1992. http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Now I don't fault Hillary for this. Borrowing rhetoric from others is done all of the time in politics. But this pettiness is what is sad about this country. This issue IS petty, it IS trivial. Barack Obama has proven himself thus far in his career and thus far in his campaign. Are you aware of his voting record? Hillary's? Are you aware of their public service records? Where they stand on the issues? We are well versed in the drama but not in real issues. Please don't get drawn into spin - it's so destructive. Make a reasoned judgment and treat others as you would have them treat you. Yes, we should hold our public servants to high standards. But we must hold ourselves to high standards as well if we are to be authentic.

Best debate ever!!!

Watching Obama wipe the floor with Hillary as she fires petty cheap shots $0

Watching Hillary squirm as the reality sinks in - Obama has more common sense in his pinky finger that she has in her whole body - and he's finally not afraid to show it $0

Learning that the only decent moment point she made in the whole debate - the last 2 minutes - was NOT heartfelt, but actually a PLAGIARIZED PHRASE SHE STOLE FROM JOHN EDWARDS... PRICELESS!

I saw two people on stage last night. One was presidential. One was pleading, subtly, with her body language. then, as noted above, borrowing phrases in a subtle but highly calculated bid to elicit sympathy votes from the electorate...just a reworking of the New Hampshire ploy.

I'm an Obama supporter from the beginning a year ago, for this one reason, which was reinforced time and again in last night's debate: he's genuine. He intends to remain on the high ground by discussing issues rather than ankle biting. he is believable. he's smart. he doesn't conduct policy discussions as if it's a rote memory drill.

and he, unlike her, knows how to manage campaign finances (read her overspending when she thought this would be a quick race) and he knows how to run a tight, powerfully effected campaign.

I would have voted for hillary, but over the last year, she has shown me more shortcomings than compelling reasons.

Gobama.

The standing ovation came due to the close of the debate, some period of time after Clinton's last words.
Both did well, Obama probably scored in having a chance to detail policies.
Hillary may surprise us and bow out after the next loss. Go Hillary!...back to Congress to support Barack Obama

An honest comment-
I and many viewers including many in the debate hall do not believe that Clinton received a standing ovation.
It looked to many as if the audience was cued that the debate was over and that they stood to pay respects to both candidates.
I think this 'standing ovation' ruse is a fallacy.
Of course CNN's handling of the whole debate was amateur... gale force winds on stage, debate flow, wrap up....
the wrap up botch led some viewers to believe that it was Hillary's ovation. I don't think that's what half the 'ovationers' were clapping about.

Listening to the words, I found them false. I am always mystified when journalists manage to identify as genuine, a moment I found false and practiced. If the standing ovation was in anyway directed more at Hillary, it was because she acknowledged in that last moment that she was likely about to lose and that it was okay. She would be fine. Family, friends and so forth. She is finally showing some sign of a graceful exit. All the people who thought, as you did, that Obama had won, can gladly support that.

And of course the ovation was likely cued.
(There are very few things I would not stand and applaud at the end. Ovations coming, as they do, at the end when its time to get up and leave.

I've been watching this clip over and over again and I don't get what people found so incredible in Clinton's closing. It was pretty good. It wasn't really newsworthy, and it didn't make up for the rest of the debate.

For me,having witnessed the crucial Kennedsy -Nixon debate,that defined the 1960 election,Hillary Clinton's body language and staring antics ended any chance she might have had in replacing confidence in her chances lost over the past month.

A "brilliant" closing -- cribbed half from John Edwards and half from Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign.

Sort of funny, coming from someone who is in high dudgeon about plagiarism.

I also couldn't help thinking: These maimed soldiers she is choking up about -- where was Clinton's sentiment and compassion when she voted to send them to be maimed (and worse)?

If the President says its OK?????

"I Did Not Have SEX With That Woman"

The then President and Husband of Hillary "redefined" Sex.
What message did that send to our children???
If what occurred in the Oval Office occurred
with one of our spouses..would it be grounds for Divorce???

Do you want your daughters "not having sex"
as defined by President Clinton.

Wake up...Please

Post a comment

By using this service you agree not to post material that is obscene, harassing, defamatory, or otherwise objectionable. Although The Atlantic does not monitor comments posted to this site (and has no obligation to), it reserves the right to delete, edit, or move any material that it deems to be in violation of this rule.


Copyright © 2007 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.